Health Care in America

Tim · Subject: Re: Health Care in America Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:48 am

whatawaster wrote:

I can't be bothered to read through this whole thread so excuse me if this has already been said. But from what I gather, there's a lot of outrage in the states about obama's healthcare plans. I cant see why, to me, 46 million people without healthcare is totally absurd. Especially for a country as rich and resourseful as the united states. Aren't Obama's plans focusing of trying to get healthcare for all? What do people think is wrong with that? Is it the fact that tax money will pay for it? I'd imagine the government funding will be insignificant compared to the amount spent on "defense".

From what I understand, this is the "problem" some people have: Everyone that can't afford it should get help from the government to get healthcare, and the people who CAN afford it without government support have to pay without the support. That last group is pissed because in their view the poor people don't have to pay for something which they do have to pay for. They think it's unfair to them and come up with stuff like "BUT I HAVE TO PAY FOR THIS AND THOSE SLACKERS DO NOTHING AND GET IT FOR FREE" blah blah blah etc.

Correct me if I'm wrong, American forummers.

ashley · Subject: Re: Health Care in America Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:08 am

Quote:

Here's what you need to know. First, I will not sign a plan that adds one dime to our deficits – either now or in the future. Period. And to prove that I'm serious, there will be a provision in this plan that requires us to come forward with more spending cuts if the savings we promised don't materialize. Part of the reason I faced a trillion dollar deficit when I walked in the door of the White House is because too many initiatives over the last decade were not paid for – from the Iraq War to tax breaks for the wealthy. I will not make that same mistake with health care.

Second, we've estimated that most of this plan can be paid for by finding savings within the existing health care system – a system that is currently full of waste and abuse.

i'm not seeing how the deficits won't grow with univeral healthcare, atleast at first. there will definitly be a huge down payment on this plan that they can't just get from cuts here or there. and i want to know what the waste is, i haven't seen him address exactly what cuts will be made. and for abuse, i'm thinkin' it'll only get worse. a lot of people are going to drop their private health care plan and jump on board the public.
hawaii only lasted seven months paying for just kids' healthcare.

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ThusSpokeYourFace · Subject: Re: Health Care in America Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:48 pm

I wonder the same thing about the deficits. This plan is going to require some spending.
And I'm curious about the "waste" that he's talking about as well.
I'm all for deficit spending though, if its for a good cause.
Its weird how no one complains about all the money we've wasted funding pointless wars and maintaining military bases in one hundred and something countries, but healthcare and economic stimulus are not worthy causes.

ThusSpokeYourFace · Subject: Re: Health Care in America Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:00 pm

Tim wrote:

whatawaster wrote:

I can't be bothered to read through this whole thread so excuse me if this has already been said. But from what I gather, there's a lot of outrage in the states about obama's healthcare plans. I cant see why, to me, 46 million people without healthcare is totally absurd. Especially for a country as rich and resourseful as the united states. Aren't Obama's plans focusing of trying to get healthcare for all? What do people think is wrong with that? Is it the fact that tax money will pay for it? I'd imagine the government funding will be insignificant compared to the amount spent on "defense".

From what I understand, this is the "problem" some people have: Everyone that can't afford it should get help from the government to get healthcare, and the people who CAN afford it without government support have to pay without the support. That last group is pissed because in their view the poor people don't have to pay for something which they do have to pay for. They think it's unfair to them and come up with stuff like "BUT I HAVE TO PAY FOR THIS AND THOSE SLACKERS DO NOTHING AND GET IT FOR FREE" blah blah blah etc.

Correct me if I'm wrong, American forummers.

That's part of it.
There's also a huge fear of 'socialism' and 'communism' and whatnot for some reason. Remnants of Mcarthyism? Idunno. And a lot of contempt for the poor. Americans seem to have the idea that if you're poor its because you're not trying hard enough, which is not the case, and have this skewed image of people who do receive government assistance as bums who just sponge off of everyone else. Personally I blame Reagan and his "welfare queen" myth about people who buy Cadillacs with their welfare checks.
And no one wants to pay taxes. Especially not the wealthiest of Americans. But the wealthiest of Americans don't have to (thanks to Bush).

But the reason I posted here twice in a row is I just saw this (starting at 1:24):

I'm so over America.
Tim can I come live with you?

ashley · Subject: Re: Health Care in America Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:25 pm

obama can not sign any of the bills in front of him right now addressing health care. they would either increase deficits, apply to illegal immigrants, or include abortions.
congress has to rewrite them so i'm gonna see what happens

_________________
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Kyle · Subject: Re: Health Care in America Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:54 pm

I vote for a plan that gives every family a first aid kit.

That is all.

whatawaster · Subject: Re: Health Care in America Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:12 am

ThusSpokeYourFace wrote:

Tim wrote:

whatawaster wrote:

I can't be bothered to read through this whole thread so excuse me if this has already been said. But from what I gather, there's a lot of outrage in the states about obama's healthcare plans. I cant see why, to me, 46 million people without healthcare is totally absurd. Especially for a country as rich and resourseful as the united states. Aren't Obama's plans focusing of trying to get healthcare for all? What do people think is wrong with that? Is it the fact that tax money will pay for it? I'd imagine the government funding will be insignificant compared to the amount spent on "defense".

From what I understand, this is the "problem" some people have: Everyone that can't afford it should get help from the government to get healthcare, and the people who CAN afford it without government support have to pay without the support. That last group is pissed because in their view the poor people don't have to pay for something which they do have to pay for. They think it's unfair to them and come up with stuff like "BUT I HAVE TO PAY FOR THIS AND THOSE SLACKERS DO NOTHING AND GET IT FOR FREE" blah blah blah etc.

Correct me if I'm wrong, American forummers.

That's part of it.
There's also a huge fear of 'socialism' and 'communism' and whatnot for some reason. Remnants of Mcarthyism? Idunno. And a lot of contempt for the poor. Americans seem to have the idea that if you're poor its because you're not trying hard enough, which is not the case, and have this skewed image of people who do receive government assistance as bums who just sponge off of everyone else. Personally I blame Reagan and his "welfare queen" myth about people who buy Cadillacs with their welfare checks.
And no one wants to pay taxes. Especially not the wealthiest of Americans. But the wealthiest of Americans don't have to (thanks to Bush).

But the reason I posted here twice in a row is I just saw this (starting at 1:24):

I'm so over America.
Tim can I come live with you?

Rich don't pay tax in America? Please tell me thats not true. Do they pay lower taxes or something? Here in the U.K if your earn something around £150,000 a year you pay high taxes, i think its 40% of your income.

anarchyintheUS · Subject: Re: Health Care in America Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:40 am

No, rich pay more tax actually...

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Tim · Subject: Re: Health Care in America Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:53 am

ThusSpokeYourFace wrote:

I'm so over America.
Tim can I come live with you?

Sure, but we have this Hitler-like figure named Geert Wilders (Famous (?) for his "movie" fitna) whom, for some reason, is quite popular. So you would have something new to be confused about.

anarchyintheUS · Subject: Re: Health Care in America Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:13 am

Let's all pool our money together to buy a private island... filled with nude super models and a whiskey distillery... and an airstrip but no plane... and a midget who makes our fantasies come true... and a unicorn.

That sounds like a grand idea. Better than having to read over a healthcare reform bill.

_________________

Ana wrote:

You're gonna get abducted alien

You will suspect it's a dream Suspect

You will be angry when you can't wake up Mad

You will realize it's not a dream Idea

Silence will fill the spaceship silent

You will want to vomit pale

You WILL vomit Sick

You will wake up in a farm the next morning sunny

Next to a pig pig

It's Chuck Norris' farm chuck

He wants to fight you Evil or Very Mad

Your life is over affraid

But not without one last dance catdance

ThusSpokeYourFace · Subject: Re: Health Care in America Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:24 am

anarchyintheUS wrote:

No, rich pay more tax actually...

Well, yeah, if you look at the percentage of their incomes their taxes are higher. Its not that simple though.
The lower your salary, the higher the percentage of your income that is spent on survival. The wealthy can afford to pay more taxes, and because of this we depend on them for a lot of revenue, so Bush's cuts helped run up the deficit. Its nothing in comparison to the costs of Medicare/Medicaid/however many wars we're currently in, but its something.
I think right now the highest tax bracket is like 35%ish??? I don't know I could be wrong.
It used to be 38.6%

anarchyintheus wrote:

Let's all pool our money together to buy a private island... filled with nude super models and a whiskey distillery... and an airstrip but no plane... and a midget who makes our fantasies come true... and a unicorn.

That sounds like a grand idea. Better than having to read over a healthcare reform bill.

Its a plan.

ashley wrote:

they would either increase deficits, apply to illegal immigrants, or include abortions.

Just curious, where did you get that information?

Not the deficit part but the illegal immigrants and abortion part?
Especially the illegal immigrants part because I've read summaries of the bill(s) and don't understand where illegal immigrants come in to it. A public option still has to be paid for and if its like Medicare/Medicaid in order to get tax credits to assist you in paying you will need a social security number.

tksk8tr512 · Subject: Re: Health Care in America Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:03 am

Johnny99 wrote:

fuck this, im moving to canada!

Universal Health Care doesn't work in Canada and the UK as well as the people who favor it say that it does. We need health care reform, thats no question. I just don't think Universal Health Care is the answer.

Ross · Subject: Re: Health Care in America Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:16 am

It worked fine for me when I had a blood disorder.

And my mum for her ongoing depression.

And my dad for his continual A&E visits.

And my gran for her cancer.

And my sister for her eyesight difficulties.

And...

I think my point is made.

I'd love to slag off universal healthcare, I'm as big a sceptic of anything as anyone, but despite its shortcomings (waiting lists, correct use of resources etc), universal healthcare has been of continual benefit to me and my family. It's by no means perfect (and the subject of endless scandal over here) but when the inevitable happens I won't be turned away because I can't afford insurance.

It's such a basic right and necessity in modern civilised society that it's difficult to imagine having to pay too much more than the £7 it costs me for a prescription every couple of months (plus my taxes, duh).

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Johnny99 · Subject: Re: Health Care in America Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:43 am

all i know is that i have had a cracked tooth for two weeks because i dont have any fucking insurance right now.
mothhherfucker it hurts when i forget about it and try to chew food on the left side of my mouth.

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Tim · Subject: Re: Health Care in America Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:34 am

Ross wrote:

It worked fine for me when I had a blood disorder.

And my mum for her ongoing depression.

And my dad for his continual A&E visits.

And my gran for her cancer.

And my sister for her eyesight difficulties.

And...

I think my point is made.

I'd love to slag off universal healthcare, I'm as big a sceptic of anything as anyone, but despite its shortcomings (waiting lists, correct use of resources etc), universal healthcare has been of continual benefit to me and my family. It's by no means perfect (and the subject of endless scandal over here) but when the inevitable happens I won't be turned away because I can't afford insurance.

It's such a basic right and necessity in modern civilised society that it's difficult to imagine having to pay too much more than the £7 it costs me for a prescription every couple of months (plus my taxes, duh).

Same here. A couple of years ago I suddenly had this problem with my bowels that required lots and lots of treatment and tests. If I had lived in the US I would've been fucked, because the bills were incredibly high. The total figure was around 10.000 euros, but I only had to pay 200 euros because of the health insurance system we have here. If it wasn't for that system I would have died, because my family couldn't afford the treatments without it.